STONE DEFLECTORS /PROTECTION

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STONE DEFLECTORS /PROTECTION

Post by grae and deb » Sun Jun 30, 2013 5:30 pm

HI ALL just need to chat re stone deflectors whos got what that works ,preferablly on a troopy
we have looked at a few and some wont work re the bumper ette set up on a troopy they sit out too far i think ?
our favourite at he moment is either make one re someones post and pics a few weeks ago ,looked a really good idea with a simple frame and the skirts from a trucking place as protection
our other favourite is the one i would love to hear feedback from is the clear pvc/plastic covers either stuck to the window or using suction cups ,if someone is using these do they work re stay there and do the job
i guess the other question is do you need such protection ,probally a silly one i know ,but i read someone writing saying a while ago that the percentage of no covers or protection to the opposite was staggering he had observed , i know you have to be very carefull as too how much creedance you give to others ,take it all on board and then make a rational decision i allways reckon
our troopy has longer mudflaps but i wonder wether once were back on the mainland and up in the centre wether that will be enough
thanks all for reading this looking fwd to some ideas
grae and deb 8-)
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Re: STONE DEFLECTORS /PROTECTION

Post by Bundyrumandcoke » Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:29 pm

I have put a bit of thought to this after breaking a rear window on my Nissan a couple of years ago. Rock bounced back from my trailer.

I reckon its a combination of a number of strategies to stop the damage. Oversize and overlength mud flaps both front and rear, in addition to whats below.

I am thinking of building something like this.
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Re: STONE DEFLECTORS /PROTECTION

Post by peter915 » Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:54 pm

Graeme

You remember our Stone stomper - same as the one in the photo above
Tim at Stone Stomper is really helpful

We brought ours as I reckon its excellent value and well made and designed. Made in SA
Our Stomper has done more than 30K kilometers, still working - yeah - it has a couple of wear holes, but its tough.

Apart form the obvious benefits, like protecting the van front and tug rear windows, it also protects the under face of the van chassis.
You look at other vans with similar kilometers and the underneath will be raw from stone damage.

Peter

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Re: STONE DEFLECTORS /PROTECTION

Post by grae and deb » Sun Jun 30, 2013 7:02 pm

hi peter yeah i remember yours ,trev and june who came with us too meet you in echuca fitted one of these , iam a bit curious how good these clear covers over the windows are but as you say these wont protect the van from chippping etc
thanks mate chat soon; grae :neutral:
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Re: STONE DEFLECTORS /PROTECTION

Post by Old Techo » Sun Jun 30, 2013 7:04 pm

I have been building my own version of the stomper principle over the past week or so. Mine is more complicated but I will post some pics when finished in the next day or so.
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Re: STONE DEFLECTORS /PROTECTION

Post by Dan and Kerrie » Sun Jun 30, 2013 7:43 pm

Keen to see them OT. I am really glad this topic has come up - it really interests me...that is, reviewing all options.

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Re: STONE DEFLECTORS /PROTECTION

Post by PeterD » Sun Jun 30, 2013 11:14 pm

If you go to - http://www.campertrailers.org/tech_tips.htm - and scroll down you will see a sub-heading "stone guards." There are a few articles on building your own stone protection. Some of the pictures you can click on for a larger version.
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Re: STONE DEFLECTORS /PROTECTION

Post by GerryP » Sun Jun 30, 2013 11:28 pm

Here's one I made myself, which I think I might have posted before somewhere. Uses a double layer of shade cloth and certainly deflects the stones. It also tilts back towards the van to give me easier access to the Trail-a-mate.

Image

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Re: STONE DEFLECTORS /PROTECTION

Post by GJenko » Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:38 am

This is what I made a few years back got the idea off the camper trailer web site. works really well and rolls up neatly when on the black top.
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Re: STONE DEFLECTORS /PROTECTION

Post by Johnyboy » Sun Jul 07, 2013 4:21 pm

Great advice, glad I'm reading all of these posts. 8-)
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Re: STONE DEFLECTORS /PROTECTION

Post by grae and deb » Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:02 pm

great advice agreed thanks all
would really like to find someone with the clear ,poly sheilds on their windows
thanks all grae and deb 8-)
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Re: STONE DEFLECTORS /PROTECTION

Post by Old Techo » Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:29 pm

I said I was building some stone protection for our trip to Birdsville. I priced a stone stomper and decided I could build one much cheaper.

Rather than use the stomper bungy cords to enable turning where the cords stretch, but not the stone skirt, I decided to use a swing-arm on the van. I was going to control the arm swing by actuators to follow the tug azimuth on turns, but it was complex. Googling various stone protection ideas I saw where someone used swing arms but held them in place with gas struts. I liked this, but not the somewhat crude method for pushing the arms back on turns.

I had a long think and began testing an actuator consisting of a steel tube loosely containing a 13mm steel push rod. This allowed a pushing force but no pulling force as the 2 parts pulled freely apart. I did some rough trig calcs then began testing a prototype for pushrod length and position on both the tug hitch and the skirt swinging arm. I needed a config that would have the swinging arm follow the tug and maintain a gap from the tug stone flaps as a corner was turned. I also wanted some slack or backlash in the system so that the actuators were not constantly working when in the roughly straight ahead position.

The stone skirt is just heavy duty shade cloth from Bunnings. It is sewn double in some places. I have ropes down each side tied from the swing arm to the van front corner. Also some ally tube across the van A frame to offer some support.

The stone flaps for the tug are marine carpet from Bunnings. They are screwed to some 25mm steel tube held to the HR hitch with a single bolt. The length of the flaps is such that they are about 100mm longer than the gap between tug and the van skirt. When the tug is driven the wind blows the flaps back under the skirt to fill this gap.

In these pics the tug flaps are not quite finished so look a bit untidy.

The idea of the system is to provide 100% flap/skirt cover between tug and van at speed. When parked the skirt arms can be pushed back for human access. On turns the tug flaps and skirt arms never come into contact on the inside of the turn.

These pics should help....
_1wide.jpg
_2actuate.jpg
_3turn.jpg
_4turn.jpg
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Re: STONE DEFLECTORS /PROTECTION

Post by Old Techo » Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:33 pm

Part 2...
_5turn.jpg
_6turn.jpg
_7flap.jpg
_8folded.jpg
_9opposite.jpg
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Re: STONE DEFLECTORS /PROTECTION

Post by peter915 » Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:49 pm

OT
Very impressive....
Uhhm .....
where is the WDH ?

How to you remove the whole contraption?

All that effort, you must surely see the $500 that the stone stomper is worth?

Red writing is hard to read.

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Re: STONE DEFLECTORS /PROTECTION

Post by Old Techo » Sun Jul 07, 2013 10:41 pm

peter915 wrote:where is the WDH ?
How to you remove the whole contraption?
All that effort, you must surely see the $500 that the stone stomper is worth?
Red writing is hard to read.
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Re: STONE DEFLECTORS /PROTECTION

Post by Old Techo » Mon Jul 08, 2013 5:16 pm

Peter, bit more info.

The frame or mount that carries the swinging arms and gas struts is a single welded unit. Although it is held by only 2 bolts it can be left on and just the swinging arms removed via a single pivot bolt each side...
mount1.jpg
mount2.jpg
The push rod actuator is just a bit of half inch steel rod that slides inside a bit of steel tubing...
push.jpg
The other thing I decided to add was some stone depressant truck brush. This is not quite finished but you get the idea. Just a bit of 20 mm square RHS that is bolted to the fuel tank protection baffle and holds the brush below the Prado flaps to increase the primary protection against stones...
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Re: STONE DEFLECTORS /PROTECTION

Post by Tony48 » Mon Jul 08, 2013 5:29 pm

Very clever O/T.
Not much more I could say, without risking sarcasm regarding intelligence rated against looks. But I would never do that. :twisted:
Envious to say the least.
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Re: STONE DEFLECTORS /PROTECTION

Post by A'van » Mon Jul 08, 2013 7:18 pm

Hi OT.

To me it looks excellent. How long did it take to think it all out ? Have you taken out a patent and do you take orders ?
Also that show The new inventors, maybe interested.

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Re: STONE DEFLECTORS /PROTECTION

Post by Old Techo » Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:24 pm

Thanks people..... but please hold any praise :oops:

I have designed and built this package using a fair bit of theory. Of course stones may not be the slightest bit interested in my theory and just do their own stony thing :confused:

Obviously I expect significant protection improvement but I am also aware of unexpected consequences of stone bounce and penetration. Given the likelihood of thousands of hits some stones will do strange things and bounce off strange places, like a pinball machine. I will report after the trip - perhaps mid September.

Avan, it took me a couple of weeks of pondering. As far as orders go.... I like to make prototypes :D but I really hate repetition :evil:
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Re: STONE DEFLECTORS /PROTECTION

Post by Old Techo » Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:40 pm

Just finished it an hour ago...
finished1.jpg
Bolted without drilling holes...
finished2.jpg
finished3.jpg
Gap left to Prado original flap...
finished4.jpg
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Re: STONE DEFLECTORS /PROTECTION

Post by Old Techo » Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:49 pm

With the marine carpet secondary shield in place...
finished5.jpg
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Re: STONE DEFLECTORS /PROTECTION

Post by vwillis » Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:13 am

Hi OT

Congratulations on such a great job. Well done and thought out.

I am looking at building a trampoline stone protector also. Just one question, how did you attach the trampoline to the caravan? A photo would be appreciated :!:

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Re: STONE DEFLECTORS /PROTECTION

Post by Old Techo » Wed Jul 10, 2013 3:46 pm

A photo would be appreciated

G'day Vince,

I made a metal loop welded to a bit of flat and screwed it to the crossmember...
tie point1.jpg
The rope is attached (when cut to length and tidied) to a climbers carabiner for quick connect...
tie point2.jpg
There are actually 3 ropes. One each side and one across the rear of the skirt (vertical arrow) to stop it flapping...
tie point 3.jpg
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Re: STONE DEFLECTORS /PROTECTION

Post by vwillis » Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:35 pm

Thank you OT. You have done a brilliant job and should be proud :)

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Re: STONE DEFLECTORS /PROTECTION

Post by Old Techo » Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:47 pm

Thanks Vince :D

I think 'proud' should await the end of field testing in case it turns to 'sombre reflection'. Anyone can rightly be proud of their efforts but a fair bit of shine is lost if it doesn't work.

If all is good then I'll be quite proud if you buy me a beer ;-) Mally already owes me a slab :mrgreen:
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Re: STONE DEFLECTORS /PROTECTION

Post by NEVILLE & TRISH » Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:21 pm

Old Techo wrote:Thanks Vince :D

I think 'proud' should await the end of field testing in case it turns to 'sombre reflection'. Anyone can rightly be proud of their efforts but a fair bit of shine is lost if it doesn't work.

If all is good then I'll be quite proud if you buy me a beer ;-) Mally already owes me a slab :mrgreen:
You might be waiting awhile OT he is fairly tight :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: STONE DEFLECTORS /PROTECTION

Post by Mally » Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:52 am

Ready to go old Techo at Hervey Bay at the moment are you close cos I'm drinking them one by one ??????

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Re: STONE DEFLECTORS /PROTECTION

Post by Johnyboy » Sun Jul 14, 2013 10:54 am

This looks AWESOME OT, looking forward to your road test report. Might need to put an order in 8-) .
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Re: STONE DEFLECTORS /PROTECTION

Post by gazndaf » Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:44 pm

Old Techo wrote:Thanks Vince :D

I think 'proud' should await the end of field testing in case it turns to 'sombre reflection'. Anyone can rightly be proud of their efforts but a fair bit of shine is lost if it doesn't work.

If all is good then I'll be quite proud if you buy me a beer ;-) Mally already owes me a slab :mrgreen:
Nice job OT, I made a stone stomper type last year, just home after using it a few times on the dirt. Trouble with shadecloth is it did get rips and holes in it from abrasion and rocks but a few stitches here and there fixed it up, besides shadecloth is cheap.

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Re: STONE DEFLECTORS /PROTECTION

Post by Old Techo » Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:59 pm

Old Techo wrote:Thanks Vince :D

I think 'proud' should await the end of field testing in case it turns to 'sombre reflection'. Anyone can rightly be proud of their efforts but a fair bit of shine is lost if it doesn't work.
To quote myself...

I did a field test of the finished product. I hooked up the van and drove around 10 kms at speeds up to 100 kph. Before this I fitted a digital camera to the front of the van and in movie mode recorded the test run. I wanted to see how the skirt flapped at 100 kph, also the stone flap action across the back of the tug and the articulation of the swinging arms on corners. All performed perfectly..... except for one major issue. The hot exhaust gas from the tug melted the acrylic marine carpet tug flaps. It even melted a small area on the shade-cloth skirt leading edge after it got through the carpet :shock: :o :oops:

I had intended to make a small extension for the exhaust pipe to point it downwards. I forgot about it and probably just as well. I hadn't given any consideration to the quantity and temperature of gas from the exhaust pipe when working hard towing. Forcing the hot gas down is contrary to its natural desire.

I pondered solutions beginning with using heat resistant material. Eventually I decided to remove the problem and pipe the heat away properly and upwards to clear everything vulnerable to heat. I patched the tug flaps and opened up the melted hole to clear the new pipe. I fashioned/shaped a tailpipe extension out of some 65 mm pipe and clamped it on. It only takes a minute to fit it and it would be removed when not towing, as would the tug flaps also held on by only 1 bolt.

Disappointed with my design failure I did some Googling using 'Stone Stomper' and 'exhaust' as search terms. I found I am not alone as others have similar issues with Pro products. One owner stated that Stone Stomper warranty does not cover exhaust heat damage.

Anyway, field testing or break-down cruises have a real purpose - to find weaknesses or failures. Here now is Mark II.

This is a freeze-frame from the movie with the burn circled...
pipe1.jpg
The next 2 are the repaired flap and tailpipe extension.
pipe2.jpg
pipe3.jpg
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Re: STONE DEFLECTORS /PROTECTION

Post by Old Techo » Sun Jul 14, 2013 5:53 pm

gazndaf wrote:Nice job OT, I made a stone stomper type last year, just home after using it a few times on the dirt. Trouble with shadecloth is it did get rips and holes in it from abrasion and rocks but a few stitches here and there fixed it up, besides shadecloth is cheap.
G'day Gaz.... it's been a while. How are your welded chassis repairs travelling? Very good I figure ;-)

Yeah, I was aware of the shadecloth lack of stamina but I am hoping the tug primary and secondary stone shields will take the fight out of any stones. Also I really only need this for maybe 1,000 kms max.
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Re: STONE DEFLECTORS /PROTECTION

Post by A'van » Sun Jul 14, 2013 6:42 pm

Hi OT
That bit of pipe should not affect the exhaust system, so that's good, sometimes you have to be careful altering the system on a modern car.
You could have laid a board across the gas bottles and have somebody sitting there ( Wife) and take photos, or maybe not :lol:
Anyway it still looks good.
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Re: STONE DEFLECTORS /PROTECTION

Post by Old Techo » Sun Jul 14, 2013 6:53 pm

A'van wrote:You could have laid a board across the gas bottles and have somebody sitting there ( Wife) and take photos...
Said wife wants to know where you live please? :twisted:
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Re: STONE DEFLECTORS /PROTECTION

Post by gazndaf » Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:04 am

Old Techo wrote:
gazndaf wrote:Nice job OT, I made a stone stomper type last year, just home after using it a few times on the dirt. Trouble with shadecloth is it did get rips and holes in it from abrasion and rocks but a few stitches here and there fixed it up, besides shadecloth is cheap.
G'day Gaz.... it's been a while. How are your welded chassis repairs travelling? Very good I figure ;-)

Yeah, I was aware of the shadecloth lack of stamina but I am hoping the tug primary and secondary stone shields will take the fight out of any stones. Also I really only need this for maybe 1,000 kms max.
1000 ks, no problems, we did do a lot of dirt while away. The chassis is good I'm so confident of its strength I carry a 15hp outboard on the drawbar now, I don't use the WDH bars and did about 15000 ks in the past year and its holding up nicely.

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Re: STONE DEFLECTORS /PROTECTION

Post by bustadog » Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:02 pm

DSC_0038.JPG
DSC_0032.JPG
Here is one that I have made.

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Re: STONE DEFLECTORS /PROTECTION

Post by nirimba » Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:35 pm

Looks good Terry and welcome to the forum.

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Re: STONE DEFLECTORS /PROTECTION

Post by waynemargaret » Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:36 am

Hi, I have has the same problem, but solved this by substituting it with chain mail (stainless steel mesh). This allows the hot exhaust gases to escape and solves the problem of extending the exhaust. I had it sown to an industrial shade cloth with steel R.H.S. top and bottom to keep it straight. To stop it lifting up I attached shock cord from the bottom to the underside of the towbar. When not in use I roll it up in front of the towbar out of the way as when 4x4ing so the hitch will not damage the deflector. It took many trials but it finally works well. Hope this helps your problem.

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Re: STONE DEFLECTORS /PROTECTION

Post by Motherhen » Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:51 am

To put rear mud flaps on the Nissan Patrol we had the exhaust turned to the side.
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